Slamlander ([info]slamlander) wrote,
@ 2007-12-14 07:20:00
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Entry tags:computer science, geek, iis, integration, site development, software, tech, vista

Vista and the bloggers

This is my first real blog post on the new site. Geek Alert: this is heavily technical.

A few days ago Mary Jo Foley wrote a nice piece about Vista, looking for the killer app. In that article she asks where it is, one year on. Methinks that, that is exactly the wrong question. The real question is; Is Vista a significant step forward from XP? I think that it is.

I look at the XP/Vista relationship about the same as the WinNT/Win2k relationship where; Win2K finally met the promises that WinNT made and failed to deliver. Win2k was arguably the best version of Windows ever and it may still be. It is certainly the last unencumbered one. I, for one, am not going to upgrade my Win2k AS servers any time soon. However, I feel that I have been falling behind steadily. While I acknowledge that XP had some good points, they didn’t sell me, as a developer. In the meanwhile XP gained a nasty reputation of wanting to phone home (MS) and ratting out the user over the smallest thing, giving MS the ability to bring the entire computer to a grinding halt.

Many were the horror stories of a looming deadline when XP suddenly decided that the current version of MS-Office was bogus, locking itself up in a sulk, along with the project’s source code. The launch version of Vista was, if anything, even more paranoid. However, a year down-range finds a heavily debugged Vista and a much chastened Microsoft. Oh, and the hated kill-switch has been defanged. They’ve also merged the product line-up, merging the technical and business versions into Vista Ultimate (another 200USD), which should have been there all along.

The core of my working toolkit is the Eclipse IDE and reviewing the past year of consternation in those forums, I’m glad I waited this long before going to Vista. The current MyEclipse v6 works just fine. Likewise, the small subset of the CygWin kernel that I use. But I am sure that a lot of those developers spent an inordinate amount of the last year cussing at Microsoft, with cause.

Enough with the teething problems. Now that Vista appears to be working, for various definitions of "working", it seems like a pretty nice vehicle. You get IIS7, a significant step up from IIS5. I already have it running PHP5 with no problems. Likewise, the current MySQL5 is also running smoothly. Tomcat (Java development) fired right up alongside IIS7 and they co-exist peaceably. I have both the MS VisualStudio components and the GNU Mingware C++ components working, each in their own sandbox. PHP5 development, with all the GUI-based page builders and stuff, is really nice, as is the usual Java development environment that comes with Eclipse.

Then there is IE7. Those bypassing that and going straight to FireFox are missing a bet. FireFox can never integrate with Vista and IIS7 like IE7 can. Web Applications written for FireFox will work with IE7, including the AJAX stuff. The standards (MS v. W3C) are merging as we watch and it’s about time!

As a WAS (Web Application Server), IIS7 also performs well, running current versions of Mediawiki, Wordpress, Bbpress, and PHPBB, with no problems. While there are issues of getting themes to coordinate, those were there anyway. I was also able to get some J2EE stuff to work. In short, it makes a good platform for general development and unit testing. Even subversion likes living there.

The commercial applications is where we had the really expensive surprises. Our old MS-Office 2K was just too crufty for Vista and would not install. We wound up having to go to MS Office 2007 Professional. It’s also the only way to get the current version of Outlook. Once we got that in, I had to upgrade the Sync programs for my Motorola K1t KRZR and the Palm TX PDA and get those sorted with the new Outlook07. As a side-note about MS-Office; Without getting into sordid details, Europeans are getting ripped off in a major way. The EC needs to bitch-slap Microsoft some more. Suffice it to say, I don’t like paying three times the normal price for software just because I am living in Europe. I still need Visio and I am seriously considering OEM Ripperware for it. Now I know why that market channel is thriving.

Oh yes, all of the above is running on my new HP Laptop (too large to be a notebook).

Specs; For ~ 900CHF (788USD)

  1. Hewlett-Packard HP Pavilion dv6500 Notebook PC Rev 1
  2. 1.70 gigahertz AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core TK-53
  3. 960 Megabytes Installed Memory
  4. FUJITSU MHW2120BH [Hard drive] (120.03 GB)
  5. NVIDIA MCP67M [Display adapter]
  6. Generic PnP Monitor (15.4"vis, August 2007)

I’m being cautious in fully moving in until I have the entire environment working but so far, I like Vista and I think that we’ll get along just fine. Yes, you cannot get a new laptop without Vista, except from Dell, and Vista drivers will not work on Win2K AS. So I was forced into this but the water is surprisingly fine ;) Overall, I have been surprised and the surprises are not entirely unpleasant. I expect, like with Win2K, the reliability will only improve over time.

In the mean time, I have the ultimate weapon for the independent contractor. This laptop can hook into anything, anywhere, do it safely, and generate code for any target host specified, while I crank out the dox with MS-Office and Acrobat 8. In the end, that’s really what it’s all about. Old rule of software development; First get it working and only then do you consider making it work better. Microsoft and the Open Source Community have spent the last year just getting Vista to work. The development tools are only just barely out there. For the moment, be happy that it works and is a significant improvement over XP. The killer apps? Well, I don’t expect them until next year, at best. For now, this is good enough.

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--> Please comment to this post here, Thank you, The Slamlander



(Post a new comment)


[info]pecosdave
2007-12-14 10:31 am UTC (link)
Short comment on a relatively small part of your post:

The standards (MS v. W3C) are merging as we watch and it’s about time!

As someone who ocasionally writes HTML/CSS I am quite happy about this, but I'm not going to pass up saying there should never have been an MS version of HTML. I understand the initial reason was to pull a me to because Netscape did it (blink - layers), then it was to get people to write things incompatible with Netscape (marque - open table tags) causing Netscape to exit the picture. It did, but it is reborn.

Nothing was more frustrating for me to work hours and hours on end in vim creating a basic template for what I want my site to look like, have it look great, run it through the W3C validator, have it pass, then have to rewrite half of it because it looked like crap in IE when I got someone to test it or tested it from work the next day.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]slamlander
2007-12-14 03:06 pm UTC (link)
While I remember things slightly differently, we've shared the same frustrations. :(

Netscrape Enterprise (I ran v3.51) failed because it stank and Apache ate its lunch. At the time, some of us were running server-side native-compiled Java, under Apache/Linux, as well.

I also have about 20,000 lines, of Nutscrape server-side Javascript, that's useless. Nutscrape deserved to go bust. If they'd really had their shit together, they would have fixed the bugs. How long, from the time of Nutscrape's dissolution, did it take to get Mozilla turned into FireFox? I've seen the code, as it was, and you could get tastier spaghetti at Ghiradelli's, in San Francisco. The term "bug ridden", comes to mind.

At that time, there was no credible standards body and there certainly wasn't any design consensus. IE became the defacto standard, mainly because it locked up the least. The ones that vectored away from what little consensus that there was, was the W3C. They started publishing standards that weren't even implemented anywhere yet. Microsoft chose, deliberately, to not break existing code. It is not, according to the FUD I've seen, MS haring off in it's own direction. That charge could be better leveled at the W3C.
Rather, MS resisted making incompatible changes.

That said, with IE7, it's all a matter of history. MS has proven adequately, that they are on the track of convergence, unless the W3C goes haring off in yet another direction again.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

I wish to take issue with one comment:
[info]tomo2k
2007-12-16 07:23 am UTC (link)
Then there is IE7. Those bypassing that and going straight to FireFox are missing a bet. FireFox can never integrate with Vista and IIS7 like IE7 can.

I don't want my browser to integrate with the OS.
I want my browser to be an application that does web-browsing, and my OS to handle the invisible stuff of hardware management, the GUI and the like.

But why should my browser be able to affect the OS?
That simply means that a flaw in the browser is a flaw in the OS!

Also, the fact that IE7 does that instantly means that Microsoft are once again breaking the law by abusing their monopoly - I expect to see another round of lawsuits and fines in the EU, and I have a vain hope to see the same in the USA.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: I wish to take issue with one comment:
[info]slamlander
2007-12-16 09:46 am UTC (link)
I was only hinting that FireFox users should, at least, look at IE7 ;) Developers definitely have to.

As for the rest; Regarding casual web surfing, I agree that it's fairly irrelevent. However, as regards intranet development and deployment, it's a requirement. Notably, Active Directory authentication support, which FireFox cannot do. Intranets also run a fair amount of AJAX.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

I can't agree with you in several points
[info]framstag
2007-12-16 08:53 am UTC (link)
My father had bought a notebook with Vista, and he had asked me to configure it, including installing several applications. Crap. Vista keeps me away from working continuously, it burns system ressources without doing more than XP (except for asking me on and on, if I were sure that I wanted to start this or that application). An operating system, that needs 1 GB of RAM to even work fluently, that needs a high end graphics adapter (the operating system, not one of those shooting games), and that needs 15 GB on the hard disk (remember: the operating system), has somehow missed the real task of an operating system.

Plus: a web browser ain't part of an operating system, it's only an application. So why should it integrate with Vista or the IIS? The operating system has to make RAM and disk storage available for the application and check on the rights. The IIS has to make web space available. That's its task. HTML, FTP or whatever standard: hand it to the requesting application.

What bugs me most about Microsoft is the way they treat small competitors. Microsoft has a semi monopoly on the market, and so they have to act differently. But they still want to eliminate even OSS projects. They start smear campaigns, they constrict interoperability, they threaten, they don't even flinch from bribing.

I put money aside for a new computer, and it will run on Linux with just a small partition for Windows (I've got some nice games and a few application I need). And I want to install Linux on my mother's notebook. She often calls desperately, when the computer needs more than 15 minutes to open up a folder in the Windows Explorer or to start a simple application like Solitair. She doesn't use special applications, usually Firefox, Thunderbird and OpenOffice.org.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: I can't agree with you in several points
[info]slamlander
2007-12-16 11:47 am UTC (link)
The most usefull feature is to disable UAC.

The problem with laptops is that they always have proprietary hardware with complementary proprietary drivers. That's what has locked me into Vista, on this HP.

(Reply to this) (Parent)


[info]ozanbaba
2007-12-19 02:12 pm UTC (link)
Win2k was arguably the best version of Windows ever and it may still be.
it indeed is. i still use Win2kPro on my desktop and i am not going to change it. XP has way too much useless eyecandy i really hate.

Vista needs a lot updates and i will not wait for them unless i can't use win2k anymore.

(Reply to this) (Thread)


[info]slamlander
2007-12-21 08:44 am UTC (link)
Well, I agree but, I don't really have a choice here :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)


[info]ozanbaba
2007-12-21 10:21 am UTC (link)
you just explanied MS's marketing stly. don't give choise to people

(Reply to this) (Parent)


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